The polygraph test was pretty much like they say in the NSA video. Having a psychology background, I was curious about the test and somewhat disappointed that I didn't have to take it. degree from Brigham Young University back when the World-Wide Web Yes, but the point is to measure lies not stress. Refusing to take a poly from anyone is the best choice you can make. Testing the Quality Review Process . Thanks, now I have the hallelujah chorus stuck in my head. He thinks I am not mistaking terms. That was 8th grade for kripes sakes and I remember it like it was today. It cannot help you in any way. If the person is stressed because their job or freedom is on the line, is it because they are falsely accused or guilty? Federal Bureau of Investigations. The Truth About the Polygraph, According To the NSA 452. There are psychiatrists and other mental health experts as well as investigators who look to dig up anything that could affect the subject's integrity. LINK - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9NSXy176oA [youtube.com]. The tool is ineffective due to far too high rate of a false positive and false negative. I've was in the Army for 12 years, and have continued to work as a contractor for 7 more and have never been "required" to take the poly. In the first category are things like my name and address -- that your last response, so let me give you another chance. Even though I'm That number can probably be delt with, perhaps with a more expensive (but more accurate) test, or maybe the treatment is no big deal (so they can just get an injection and go on). For national security positions (including federal law enforcement) relevant questions on espionage activities are sure to be included. The rest of my comment lays out the logical basis for that statement. The polygraph instrument uses sensors placed on an individual to monitor and record their physiology during the testing phase. T: Ya, I know bob. ." When you start overthinking the questions, that's where you'll run into trouble. Has it expired? Well, as they say: "you don't beat the polygraph - you beat the polygraph examiner. Do I need literacy training or just the editors of /.? Aldritch Ames [wikipedia.org] kept passing his polys while he was getting every CIA agent in Russia killed or turned. Simpsons. If you really think the truth is however you answer that question as far as the polygraph is concerned you are being truthful, so I am not sure I understand what the point of your proposed exercise would be. I asked what it was and he told me it was my ticket to keep my job. I hadn't done it, I said as much. We are not responsible for them in any way. Based in part on this information, the subcommittee urged the director of the CIA to institute research on "the accuracy of the polygraph in the pre-employment setting and to establish some level of confidence in the use of that technique. This went on for WELL over an hour and I was maybe 19 at the time. The response is most informative when he says, "This is true of NSA employment practice, but . The eavesdropping and code-breaking organization has produced a 10-minute video designed to soothe applicantsâ anxiety over the notoriously grim experience. It's all psychological, not mechanical. https://antipolygraph.org/cgi-bin/forums/YaBB.pl?num=1247844645 [antipolygraph.org]. There's a reason why in Canada they're not considered an instrument reliable for court. Once you get rejected from one agency for failing a lie detector test, you're blackballed from others. (She has a magic lasso that makes people tell the truth. T: Everyone knows Bob is missing, that's why I'm here. They have a whole gamut. to foreign spies, and whether I've engaged in any adult homosexual You can think about polygraph tests as taking place in three phases: pre-test, in-test, and post-test. They can take the things you say in the test and use them against you in court, but no matter how flawlessly you pass the test, as a defendant you cannot call on any of that testimony in the court room. I take an anticonvulsant drug [wikipedia.org] which is also prescribed as a mood stabiliser. It's used as more of a method to trick you into telling the truth than it is to detect lies. Early in the test, the examiner asked me if I lived at such and such Now the costs of the more accurate test start rising. The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. address wrong. Still, computers and spies. little to recommend it. I also went through an interrogation in junior-high when an item went missing in a class. Instead. If someone refuses to say anything but "Mickey Mouse" while strapped to their glorified E-meter, would that be seen as an exercise in 5th amendment rights in the States? After that, things went pretty smoothly. A "red badge" is a visitor without a security clearance, and they The Department of Energy doesn't require polygraphs for Top Secret equivalent clearances. Don't talk to the police if you are innocent or guilty and without a lawyer...good advice. Since he had turned the sensitivity all the way up because he couldn't get a response, when he told me to hold them a little tighter, the needle shot all the way to the right. AntiPolygraph.org, and Of course, the price of freedom is eternal vigilance. Or maybe not. Someone who is a pathological liar isn't going to get caught. This is simply risk management and if you're Joe Blow secretary tough luck - you're toast! I'm gay!!! Gee, a Libertarian who distrusts a government agency AND polygraphs? And like the guy said in the video, if you fail for applying to the NSA then you might not be able to gain employment for other government agencies because they keep the result on file. It is one part of a process, and if you focus on the polygraph machine itself you'll miss out on the very intentional steps taken to get you to overreact if you lie. This discussion has been archived. It makes sense, really. Go ahead. Is this normal? When you yourself are caffeine speeded, shivering in cold sweat and not able to tell up from down, the machine will have a very difficult job assessing your truthfulness. They all ended up providing classified information to the Soviets for a relatively minimal amounts of money. The questions are in one of two categories: (1) stuff they already know, and (2) stuff they want to know. Typically your options are to learn to live with the surrounding madness, or try to change it in some small way - whic. After a few minutes, he began doubting the machine, and then questioned me on if I was operating it right. (Q = question. Ames was even tested again, passing the test to continue his work. The National Security Agency wants job applicants to know that its polygraph test is nothing to sweat. R: Pass, Q: Are you aware that Bob is missing? This is an initial response to your Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request of 27 March 2002, which was received by this office on 27 March 2002, requesting a copy of NSA/CSS Regulation No. then a polygraph would show that they truly believe it. box from Sneakers or something. No way! And that invalidates the previous claim about how a polygraph works. "Have you taken any Benzodiazepines to help cheat this test?". The polygraph, in these instances, was worthless and, in fact, provided a false sense of security to the detriment of the country's well-being. During his first retest in 2009, the polygrapher mentioned countermeasures only briefly. When deemed to be in the interest of national security, ⦠It's 6:30 AM. Some people have medical issues that provide goofy readings be it heart or sweat or breathing. × Save. So just down 20 cups of coffee before taking the test. A. Refuse ALL polygraph tests, there is no empirical evidence to support them, and you should absolutely object to any of them that are offered. Stuff they want to know includes things like whether The average cost to administer the test is more than ⦠I remained calm, and answered every one of them any way I wanted. Let's say you have a test for a virus that is 99% accurate, but 1% of the time, it gives a false positive (says someone has the virus, but doesn't). Polygraph abuse at CIA, NSA. was a new thing. Sometimes they show up on my personal page but not on the discussion thread. If you didn't take the test, you wouldn't get the job. The only point of polygraphs is that they're a *psychological* interrogation tool, used to induce people into confessing to things by making them think the interrogator actually knows they told a lie. A polygraph, popularly referred to as a lie detector test, is a device or procedure that measures and records several physiological indicators such as blood pressure, pulse, respiration, and skin conductivity while a person is asked and answers a series of questions. The subject believes that they work and the polygrapher CAN see changes that can indicate that the person under scrutiny is having an issue with something. if they refuse|agree to take a polygraph they're probably guilty|innocent. Are there other situations which would yield the same results?The answer is - yes. After working there for 6-8 months something (I don't know what) happened and everyone was lined up from 3 stores for polygraphs. R = Result), Q: Did you know the victim Bob? The questions resumed, and I didn't show any sort of reaction to any of the questions. In the early to mid-1970s, the FBI sent agents for polygraph training first at Quantico, Virginia, and, in the late 1970s, to the U.S. Army Military Police School at Fort Gordon, Georgia. reliability is the extent to which the same measurement procedure (with the polygraph, this includes the examiner, the test format, and ⦠I do not understand how slashdot works. If the entity requesting the poly then declines to hire you, then you are better off, than if you consent and they fail you on the poly. At the same time, 5,559 passed the polygraph test in Fiscal Year 2019, an increase of 24 percent from the previous fiscal year; 4,487 passed the polygraph test in Fiscal Year 2018, up from 2,393 in fiscal 2017, a remarkable 88 percent increase. The information they disclosed resulted in the compromise of highly useful, and costly, collection systems, data, and human assets, some of whom were killed as a result. Without JavaScript enabled, you might want to turn on Classic Discussion System in your preferences instead. Raise stress levels perhaps? After working there for 6-8 months something (I don't know what) happened and everyone was lined up from 3 stores for polygraphs. dropping my comments in the past few months as well. According to the American Polygraph Association (APA) validated polygraph techniques test with an accuracy of 90% with some studies showing 93% - 95% accuracy on select exams. Polygraphs aren't lie detectors. At risk of sounding like one of those asshole girls, "if they would discriminate against me, then I don't want to work for them" (because fundamentally, I have a right to). "The Truth About the Polygraph" ( National Security Agency (NSA)-produced video on the polygraph process) In 2018, Wired magazine reported that an estimated 2.5 million polygraph tests given each year in the United States, with the majority administered to paramedics, police officers, firefighters, and state troopers. Not sure how this got a tagged as an NSA video, it's from the DSS. Yeah, that's a great argument to make for invalidating their point. Hence, that is why they try and make you as calm as possible before hand and try and make questions as neutral as possible to prevent a sudden rash of nervousness. Candidates for law enforcement officer positions at CBP are required to undergo a polygraph examination as part of the background investigation. theirs): In the end, I didn't get the job. is, "Is your name Eric James Smith?" From what I can tell, the way that they polygraph criminals and people in intelligence is roughly the same. Run don't walk from those - it's crap and they will pull who knows what out of their ass. The real evaluation comes from the interrogation. The video uses interviews with former applicants, polygraph examiners and NSA employees to make the process seem less threatening. I guess you refer to one of these: Feb. 2015 New Polygraph Policy Issued by ODNI: Intelligence Community Policy Guidance (ICPG 704.6) The new Intelligence Community (IC) Policy Guidance establishes policy and assigns responsibilities governing the use of polygraph examinations conducted by IC elements in support of personnel security vetting. They are used to assess truthfulness. I had been told that I wasn't under suspicion for the missing controlled drugs (!) For general job screening, like the NSA is using it for here, that's nowhere near good enough. Wherever the Union armies marched from then on, slavery would die. 2003. National security topics include terrorist activity, ... polygraph exam is not complete until quality control examiners review the results. The fact that NSA uses the polygraph is pretty well known, I think some other Govt offices use it too. He focused on steadying his breathing and restoring his calm. They know it's total BS there are plenty of normal reasons to make you nervous. However, your security clearance will probably be revoked or denied. They are used to assess truthfulness. I've heard that story too, but the fact is that the photocopier lie detector has as much scientific evidence to support it as a Polygraph does. T: Oh shit, they know I did it. Some jobs in the defense sector require a lie-detector test (or polygraph) as part of their hiring process, even for interns. I know this since the voices in my head has telled me so. The know. Slashdot. and not to worry. Reminds me of the early days of Scientology. Hmm, what would higher stakes do? Duane said, don't talk to the police if you're innocent. If you don't want to consent to the test you are b. I'm not really sure the purpose of putting sociopaths in power, though. They know it's total BS there are plenty of normal reasons to make you nervous. 4/2017 NSA Re-Polygraph Exam Request 5/2017 Polygraph 3 5/2017 NSA Re-Polygraph Exam Request 6/2017 Polygraph 4 Scheduled Anyone ever take 4 polygraphs? Finally after forever he slammed down a piece of paper and told me to sign it. Especially when they want to search you or pin something on you that you had nothing to do with. One of the most annoying things about the procedure is that the whole thing is full of deception and unfairness. NSA has stated that the agency "does not use the 'truth v. deceptive' concept of polygraph examinations commonly used in criminal cases. It's a good thing the agency is much smarter than you give them credit for, though. I suggested he turn the sensitivity down. The polygraph examiner looks for changes in blood pressure, heart rate, respiration, perspiration, and skin conductivity. The polygraph is an outdated technology which can be easily fooled. Actually, as AntiPolygraph.org pointed out, it convinces people to submit to an interrogation without a lawyer. What they do is they will pretend you didn't do well, and then say someting like "Well is there something related to that you should tell me about" or something and get you to admit ⦠Yeah, but you are worse off than if you consent and pass - which is the most likely result. In 1991, while still a college student, I applied for a summer If the subject is able to provide reasonable explanation for the readings and what goes through their mind when queried then a good polygrapher will let it go. Polygraph examination results are valid for a two-year period. It's real purpose is to act as the "bad cop" to scare the criminal, while the person asking questions is the "good cop" just trying to save you from yourself. I mean, if ANYTHING they say about lie detectors is true, then someone's nonverbal responses to questions should be considered "speech," right? Validate, LLC only ⦠...do they do with uncooperative respondents? The Army regulation governing polygraph examinations in criminal and military intelligence investigations has been updated, and will take effect May 21. How accurate is the polygraph at measuring that?The answer is - not very accurate. You're being sarcastic right? The American Polygraph Association is currently the only accrediting organization for these schools and assures that the schools meet a minimum standard for instruction of primary polygraph students. The shuttle leaves at 6:30 AM. I'm not sure adding stress into the equation would make it harder to fake. It probably moved a needle a little bit. subtle questions to determine if I was suffering from some psychotic Oh, some drugs will screw with the machine too apparently so if you take those for whatever reason it's going to be weird, not sure what they do then. All that matters is that the interrogee believes the test has some effect - the actual technology used is irrelevant. I posted about that earlier in response to this when it had no comments, but my comment has gone walkies. for brilliant computer scientists, but couldn't tell me what they were Every time you make an admission to a control question in the "pretest" interview, the polygrapher will act slightly ⦠Terrible advice. For those interested, here are the videos of that: Part 1 [youtube.com] and Part 2./a. Want to read Slashdot from your mobile device? For one portion of the interview, I was escorted into a real working NSA Commercial businesses may not polygraph their employees on a generalized suspicion that someone did something. The average cost to administer the test is more than ⦠If you're worried about this, then point directly to the Green River Killer and point out that he passed a polygraph as well as numerous spies in the USA. AntiPolygraph.org had a story like that about a guy who applied to a police department in Texas. If you cannot control your physiological reactions to different stress inputs, you're probably not the type they are looking for. The guy talked to me, and asked lots of questions. [youtube.com], Yep, this is pseudo-science bullshit on a par with water-dowsing. They can also collect information that they can use against you in combination with other (mis)information. categories: (1) stuff they already know, and (2) stuff they want to internship with the NSA, so I got to take one of these tests myself. I had done nothing. A = verbal answer. If you’re looking for an excellent primer on the security clearance polygraph exam, check out a ClearanceJobs resource called, “5 Rules for Taking a Security Clearance Polygraph.” It gives an easily digestible explanation of what the polygraph measures, common misconceptions, and guidance on how to take the test effectively. If they are honest, then it won't be a problem. National Research Council. No known technology has been proven to have any significant efficacy at detecting lies under scientific co. Or that you actually were a good boy, so you'd be more likely to obey whatever daddy NSA tells you to do. Is that supposed to be a valid defense? All of them were subject to taking and passing one or more polygraph tests. But after this guy fired like 6 people my number was up. The final results of the polygraph examination will be utilized as part of the overall agency adjudication process for placement in a CBP law enforcement position. had pointed to me and that they recognized the handwriting as being from trustworthy students blah blah. Because he was passing the polys, they never checked up on basic questions like "Hey, why's this guy rich? How about "The Truth About the NSA - According to the Polygraph. "Have you engaged in espionage against the United States? Cancel. If a polygraph were used under different circumstances where its results were meaningful, then the tool would be effective, however: The Polygraph is absolutely and unequivocally INEFFECTIVE at determining honesty. I asked to see the video, I asked to have witnesses come forward, I denied having stolen anything because I hadn't. Shit, they know I killed Bob. The fact that the "stakes are high" doesn't justify a technique that doesn't work. State unconditionally your willingness to engage in prescreening interviews that do not violate your rights. These are all to be answered "yes", And generally, they don't just administer polygraphs to people who are completely disinterested in something. The problem is that you cannot tell which are the good cops and which are the bad cops and it's best to just not take chances. FWIW when I was younger I was subjected to what was surely an illegal interrogation by a security guy for a drugstore where I worked. So I think there are a few normal drugs which when used in the right way would make it easier to stay cool, calm and collected in the situation you describe. Polygraphs are nowhere near 90% accurate. Comments owned by the poster. Among other things, the program requires FBI employees with access to ⦠Not really. The recruiter told me that they had lots of fascinating jobs